Ok. We got some burning questions for all you blokes and blokettes:
1. Are you doing what you're doing right now because you feel God, Jimminy Cricket or the Cosmos is calling you to do it and you feel a profound sense of responsibility to answer that call or are you doing it because its a job and it pays the bills. Or both.
2. Do you think God calls some people more specifically then he calls others or do you think God calls the entire human race the same but the difference is some people answer that call better?!?!?
3. How do you know if you are even answering God's call? What if you think you are because you feel good about yourself and seem to be having success but really you're whale food. Or what if you think you're not because you feel frustrated and discouraged but meanwhile your doing exactly what God wants you to - but you just don't know it yet.
4. Is it possible that God has just one call for everyone - Love me, Love everyone. The rest is just details.
Angie and I were just having a fireside chat about all this tonight - and we thought we'd bring you all into the discussion - we thought about inviting you for coffee but it's just not practical and besides its getting late.. . Wait I know, just drink coffee as you type and then we'll drink it as we read and ka bam we'll be out for coffee.
Anyways. . .let er rip. If its ok with Dave. I know he kinda pioneered the deep discussian post thing so Dave, if its ok maybe we'll try this topic for a bit. In fact, maybe you'll break the ice. .
John
Sunday, August 20, 2006
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16 comments:
I wrote the best comment ever and then lost it - darn. I have the answer for your questions... simple really - see my blog, or maybe not. Short answer - mostly I'll take #4, but I haven't always thought that way. Most preachers I know like to think they have a "call", lots of non preacher people I know don't... I think lots of times God just doesn't care about it as much as we think, he just says stop reading Bruce W and get to lovin' thy neighbour. No offense to the preacher types by the way, since that would be most of my family, and you. Long and more wise answer - see Dave's blog.
Did Jesus ever talk about calling?
I hear my kids calling more than God........honestly. I have not answered His call as well as I should have. But I still have 60 years left to do so....(or 50 if my cholesterol catched up with me)...guess I better get on it.
More in depth answer; God called the 12 apostles to be "fishers of men", so if we are thought of as 21st century apostles, then God calls us to be more than nice people or to do MORE than just the greatest command of loving our neighbors. Question is this; what exactly are we called to do? Guess we'll all have to read our Bibles to find out...which puts us back to square one of this discussion....
On a side note, or in relation to the "work question"....those of you who have proffesions which include preaching or teaching God's word are blessed. Blessed with talent and the opportunity to work 7 days a week with God on a professional basis. The rest of us have to literally step-out of our professions in order to capitalize on the opportunites God presents us with. Biggest differnce here = comfort level due to situation and lack of training.
That was almost as long as my blog....which I will update sooner or later....
answers to the questions from where i stand...
1. i do feel God calling me right now. i don't know how to explain it, though. it's not in the way i have typically thought of being called. before i always thought i was waiting for God to call me. i was waiting for a specific purpose in my life. now, i feel as if God is calling me to the mission he has had going all along, so i'm not signing up for my own individual mission, but more for the mission of God that has been going on for some time now and will go on whether i answer that call or not.
2. i'm no scholar, but here's what i think. i do think there are those who are more sensitive to what God has going on in the world. i think there are those who are in touch with what God is doing and join in on his mission, but there are those who miss it. so i don't know if i would say that some answer it better, but some do hear more clearly than others when they make room for God.
3. i think if you are just happy all the time and comfortable, then you are most likely missing the call of God. i'm not saying what you do is wrong, but i think we should be experiencing a wide variety of emotion when following the call of God, including frustration and doubt. i can't really think of anyone in scripture who was %100 sure of their call and never experienced any negative feelings about what they were doing. everyone from abraham to Jesus, experienced some amount of frustration, doubt and any number of questions about whether they were doing the right thing. (i'm thinking Jesus in the garden before his execution).
4. i agree with tim. although my life doesn't always reflect this call, i do think that there is one mission, and that is to love God and love your neighbors. i think that is what we are signing up for. the rest of what we do should be a means to get to this end. by the way, i love that band means2anend...
i would love it if people would tell me whether they think i am out to lunch here or not. i promise i won't be offended. at least not in this blog anyway. secretly, though, i will hate you for always. but seriously, feel free to gently correct me if you feel i am missing the point. thanks for the questions John.
I'd be quite happy to break the ice, John, but it seems I'm too late. You guys know full well that I'm gonna end up with the longest comment...
Thanks for the good post though, and I'm really enjoying the responses so far... especially (here's a shocker) Blair's. He's really grown up since my time at Blessings mentoring him and nurturing him at my bosom came to an end. Sick...
I've been thinking about this stuff a lot lately (the post topic, that is, not the nurturing). I'm on the road right now with a bunch of other people who, I can see, have stepped out in faith to follow God by leaving a lot behind to come do this tour thing. However, for most of them (unlike me, the rookie) their time is almost over (in December) and most if not all are starting to worry and strain a lot about what they'll do at the end of tour. I've tried (fairly pathetically, I'll admit) to be a sounding board for some of them and hear how they're feeling, and share some of what I've learned (or think I've learned) about the call of God. People are really worried about exactly where they're supposed to be. This Jonah guy has a lot of people freaked out.
As for my own answers...
1. Simple answer, I feel like I actually am where God wants me to be, but I'm so far from who he wants me to be in this situation that it seems almost a waste for me to be here.
2. This question is almost word-for-word what's been rolling through my head occasionally lately, and I'm really not sure of the answer. Part of me says that its true--that some people are called out more specifically, but then I think that I only see it that way because I'm so flippin' proud and I think me and my friends are as disproportionally significant to God as we are to ourselves. Maybe its just that some people are called out more noticeably?
before I get to number 3 and 4, a quick advertisement with some pertinent reading material...
Have you seen the book by Kyle Lake called "Understanding God's Will"? It's a great book. Well, from what I gather by skimming through it, reading a few pages in the middle, and reading some reviews and summaries, its a great book. A big part of his point (at least as far as I can tell) is "Woah, stop freaking out guys." God's will has a lot less to do with exactly where we are at what time of the day and a lot more to do with who we are, no matter what situation we're in. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, but does it past the test of Systematic Theology? I'll leave that to you preacher types...
3. On that note, I'd say in a vein reminiscent of our recent OT talks, that Jesus ought to be the litmus test for our life. How does what I'm doing line up with the life and teachings of Jesus? How does what I'm doing line up with his decision to die rather than kill? (That's a really cliche/vague answer, isn't it...?)
4. I think its safe to say that if this isn't the entirety of God's will, it is at least the foundation.
I like Blair's language of joining in on what God's already doing (Even though I know he ripped it off from Nooma #11).
Anyways.. that's enough...
Who's up next?
So sorry I did not number my answers like Dave and Scott. I am also lazy.....
Good answers from Mr. Turner, who I am glad to see has an approach to his faith entirely different than his father. (Not dissing the senior Mr. Turner, just saying I like your fresh approach).
Later scholars.......
O, and try checking out my latest blog question on my blog home page. (Not quite as in-depth, but interesting just the same).
Great thoughts boys - I'll comment later and if you're lucky, maybe I'll even tell you what I think. And if you're really lucky maybe even Ang will tell you what she thinks. And if you're super lucky maybe you'll all wake up tommorow and your house will say - Good morning sleepy head, hope you had a good sleep.
A forget it. . .no one's that lucky.
Dave - I like "who" we are, rather than "what" we are... I don't like Blair and your bosom talk...
Kyle Lake and his book on God's Will - what an amazing strange weird ironic strange strange thing that he wrote that book then died the way he did... I have not read it, but heard nothing but good things about the book and him.
guys, that is a hard question. and you have all answered it better than i can.
i dont know if there is one correct answer however...does it matter how God calls or doesnt call people? i suppose if we knew how he did it, it would be easier to see when 'I' was being called. maybe i have bought into the mystery that is God so much so that i almost feel like there is no answers anywhere for anything about his character and how he works (yes of course, i know the Bible is there and gives us hints and examples, through narrative, of the way he has worked in other peoples lives)..but...?
ok, so i didnt answer the question...so what.
Fellas,
Good thoughts.
FWIW, I've always found the order of Romans 8:1-2 interesting:
(a) Offer yourselves to God, live holy lives, let your mind be transformed, etc, etc, etc.
(b) Then you'll know and understand His will better.
I think he might be saying that if God does have a specific will (job, spouse, education, etc.) for individual lives, it becomes clearer the more we surrender to His general will (love Him, love people). We blow it when we try to take one out of context of the other.
Yo Anon,
I think you mean Romans 12:1,2.
Misquote the bible again and I'm cutting you off my blog forever.
Comprende?
Just jokes, love you anon.
Love you so much.
John
what bosom talk?
Yo Dad,
I think you mean Romans 12:1,2.
Misquote the bible again and I'm cutting you off my blog forever.
Comprende?
Just jokes, love you dad.
Love you so much.
John
P.S. Thanks Al. Ha. Thanks also for commenting - keep em coming.
make your dad start a blog... that would be way better than blair's boring blog. (good alliteration there, though, dave...) seriously, say that 5 times fast. blair's boring blog. blair's bloring blog. blair's boring blog. its even hard to type.
no seriously though. sweet discussion. deep, thoughtful, provocative, not at all like blair. except for provocative. he provokes my anger, through blair's boring blog.
Well its Friday afternoon. About 2pm. I was out till 130am with some teens last night so I'm a little tired but its time I gave my 2 cents on this thing. After all I started it.
The easy answer to this question is "we can't." We can't ever know the call of God. . .for sure. Just like we can't ever know God. .. for sure. Just like we can't ever know what the bible says is true. . .for sure. This kind of stuff lives in the country of faith with Uncertainty as its capital city. We can be pretty sure, sure enough to give our entire life to this but never for sure. Never for certain.
At the same time, I realize that answer satisfies few, including me and some may even see it as a cop out. I know my brilliant brother in law (Brother Jord) finds that answer to be insufficient and even intellectually lazy. "Just have faith" we say then we stop thinking. I think he has a point.
I think we can never know God's call for certain but we're still called to try, I think. Not try to figure God out so we can put him in a little white box and kiss his little face (annoying camp song) but rather try to know him in such a way where perhaps the answer will one day be sensed, not because we sought the answer but because we sought God and ended up finding both.
I believe I have sensed God's call for my life. I say sensed because I have never seen, heard, tasted, touched, or smelt God. I've never experienced a talking burning bush or sky scraper especially not one that articulated a call so specifically. - Save Israel from Egypt. I'll help. Go. Now.
In some ways it would be nice if God showed his hand and articulated his call for my life as he did for Moses but at the same time maybe if he did I'd stop pursuing him and pursue the call instead. Years later I'd be well on my way to building my own kingdom instead of God's because after all - My plans are God inspired - imagine the success and fame!! Cha Ching.
I hesitate to admit this but I can remember sitting at a Smitty's in Dauphin with Angie and articulating to her that I felt God was calling me to "lead a Mega church in Dallas inspiring hosts of people and then also have season's tickets to the Cowboys." You might think I made that up or exaggerated to make it sound I don't know more entertaining but I promise you that is the call I felt when I was 19. Looking back I realize I wasn't feeling called I was feeling important. Arrogant. I feel a deep sense of shame when I think about what a self involved prick I was back then. I think its easy to mistake God's call and our desires. Separating them is the task of our life and the key to the quality that life will be.
So, what is God's call for my life?
Ultimately my call is #4. Tim asked if Jesus ever talked about calling? He may not have used those words but he did say that we are to love God and love people with our entire being and the rest is just details. How we do that will depend on our personality, passions, gifts, opportunities, and even luck. I am not blessed to live here I am lucky. I just happened to be born in the greatest country of the world - the land of opportunity which means that I BETTER NOT TAKE THIS LIFESTYLE FOR GRANTED. Billions of people would give anything to live one day in my shoes. Not because I am special but because I was lucky enough to be born in a country where our greatest challenge is trying to program our VCR.
As far as what I feel God's call is for me specifically: I just have a sense, that's all. Nothing for sure, just a whiff.
I sense God wants me to direct my passions into areas that help other people rather then just entertain myself.
I sense that he wants me to use my talents to inspire others to live a better life then the one their living right now. Too often I try to use my talents to impress others. Or myself.
I sense that he wants me to use my high energy to seize the moment and live each day to the fullest.
I sense that, despite my weaknesses, he wants me to try to help and inspire others to do the same.
Bottom line: He wants me active, involved, and trying my best to be the change I want to see in the world (thanks Ghandi). Starting in my heart and extending to my family, my neighbors, my street, my community, my church, my ministry, my city, my world.
Still, many days I am consumed with a desire to know what the next gig is. But I am learning to stop dreaming and start living. You can't live in the present and the future at the same time. So I'm learning to leave the future with God and do what I know I'm to do today.
So. Do I feel called? More noticed. And supported. And inspired to make a difference. Not because I'm called but because I can.
Thanks for the discussian boys, unto the next topic!
John
That is one long comment - puts Dave to shame... good stuff such a huge topic and each of our stories makes it huger (is that a word?). So you still own a VCR?
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